Area 4 Face to Face Committee Meeting Minutes
Chicago, IL
April 22 – 24, 2010

Designated Federal Official

• Martin, Betty - Nashville, TN - Designated Federal Official

Committee Members Present

• Adams-Dodds, Carolyn - Detroit, MI - Member
• Akbar, Sandra - Chicago, IL - Member
• Buschmann, Ray - Lake Forest, IL - Member
• Granger, Jackie - West Bend, WI - Member
• Kosanovich, Matt - Columbus, OH - Member
• Martyniuk, Lev - Cincinnati, OH - Member
• Monnier, David - Indianapolis, IN - Member
• Mull, Bob - Ann Arbor, MI - Member
• Oetken, Todd - Louisville, KY - Vice Chair
• Rhyan, Joyce - Cleveland, OH - Member
• Spiotto, Ann - Lincolnwood, IL - Chair
• Taylor, Rita - Cincinnati, OH - Member
• Vanderver, Stephen - Evansville, IN - Member
• Werner, Mary Jo - La Crosse, WI - Member
• Wingard, Kelly - Decatur, IL - Member
• Young, Marilyn - Nashville, TN - Member

Committee Members Absent

• Mackie, Wayne - Frankenmuth, MI - Member
• Turner, Dianne - Knoxville, TN - Member

TAP Staff

• Block, Roy - Milwaukee, WI - Manager
• Smiley, Ellen - Milwaukee, WI - Analyst
• Gabriel, Lisa - Milwaukee, WI - Analyst
• Haywood, Annie - Milwaukee, WI - Management Assistant

Welcome/Announcements/Review Agenda (Spiotto)
Ann Spiotto noted the agenda was designed based on the goals we hope to achieve during the meeting. The goals are: to review and analyze all outstanding issues and to the extent possible, completely write up and quality review the issues to be elevated; reach consensus to drop issues that are not high quality issues; and determine which Area 4 members want to work remaining issues and identify timelines for completion. Friday most of the day will be spent working issues in subcommittee groups and Saturday morning the full committee will review the finished products.

Local Taxpayer Advocate (LTA) – Chicago (Taylor)
Selma Taylor has been with the IRS for 25 years, of which 15 were spent in the Examination Division. In 1999 she came to the Taxpayer Advocacy Service (TAS), where today they have nine Case Advocates and one Lead Case Advocate. They are in the process of hiring a Senior Analyst, who plays a critical role with researching and providing information to case workers to improve their cases. The Chicago TAS will soon be hiring a Junior Analyst, an Intake Advocate, and a Case Advocate. The office has about 700 cases, however at the beginning of the year the inventory was about 1,000. The most common types of issues are: collection issues, exam issues, audit reconsideration, and stolen identity. Stolen identity cases take a long time to resolve. Taylor commented on how as a TAS employee she relates to TAP. She starts by inviting panel members to come and meet in the Chicago TAS office. Taylor feels the work the panel members do is profound and has been able to work together with them on Town Hall Meetings and with interviewing TAP Applicants. She added the lien issue is high on the radar for Nina Olson, who believes it should not be a one size fits all; instead compliance history should be reviewed. There have been a lot of cases on the first time home buyer credit, and it is an issue tracked for fraud. There have been 185 criminal schemes identified so far. This year Chicago is the site for one of the tax forums and Taylor will be working in the tax resolution room. She has also been working on EITC as it is the portfolio assigned to her.

Q: What is the current case load?
A: The case load is very high with about 100 cases per case advocate.

Q: Do you triage cases?
A: Yes, we have just implemented this process to reduce the burden on the case advocates.

Area 4 Chair Report/Joint Committee Update (Spiotto)
The Joint Committee met on March 23rd. The Joint Committee was informed Shawn Collins is now the permanent TAP Director. There were three Area issues discussed. Spiotto noted the person to make the best presentation of an issue is someone from the subcommittee who worked the issue. She also added we need to ensure quality issues are elevated. There is currently a task force headed by Judi Nicholas, tracking what IRS implements from TAP’s recommendations, to see if there is a purpose for TAP. Meeting minutes from the Joint Committee are on TAPSpace. Something else to see on TAPSpace is the National Taxpayer Advocate testifying before the finance committee about the phone problem. Also presented were issues about liens and levies. Committees need to look at what Olson is saying so we are not raising issues she is already working on.

DFO Report (Martin)
Martin explained the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) controls how federal committees are regulated. Because TAP is a Federal Advisory Committee, the provisions of FACA require TAP to have a Designated Federal Official (DFO) to make sure the rules of FACA are followed. Since Martin is required to be here, she tries to add some perspective based on experience. Martin noted she is an LTA like Taylor and wanted to piggy back on the message stating TAS does help people who are experiencing hardships. It can be an individual or a business.

New Procedures for Area Issues Relating to Forms & Pubs (Smiley)
Issues will no longer be referred to the Forms and Pubs Project Committee, or to any project committee. If an Area Committee agrees to elevate an issue, the Area works it and elevates it to the Joint Committee. However, if there is a need for information from a project committee, the analyst can ask questions through the project committee analyst. These procedures were effective March 17, 2010.

New and Parking Lot Issues Report (Werner)

Issue 16957 – Social Security Taxation
Description: Since about 1983 the dollar amount used to determine what portion of Social Security income is taxable has been $25,000 and $32,000 without any Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA).
Recommendation: New Issue Committee recommended dropping this issue as it is legislative – see
Code section 86(C) (1). ITEM DROPPED

Issue 16964 – TCE Program Income Limits
Description: The IRS Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) Program offers free tax help to people who earn less than $49,000. The Tax Counseling for the Elderly (TCE) Program offers free tax help to taxpayers who are 60 and older. I think the TCE program should also have income limits.
Recommendation: Can TAP request changes to Federal Regulations? If yes, New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Active – Medium priority
ACTIVE, Subcommittee: Rita Taylor (chair), Lev Martyniuk, Ray Buschmann and Matt Kosanovich

Issue 16978 – IRS Image
Description: Being a tax preparer for 16 years I find there is an overwhelming fear of dealing with the IRS involving the public. There is a need to build a better self image. It would be great to improve the public’s perception to view the IRS as not the enemy, but part of the process necessary for the success of our country.
Recommendation: New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Active – Low Priority.
Discussion: Cannot pay for advertising. ITEM DROPPED

Issue 17016 – Publication 505 – Correction
Description: Caller stated there is an error in the Publication 505, Tax Withholding and Estimated Tax. On page 22 and 23 the publication gives instructions on making estimated tax payments especially when there is a change during the year. He says there is an example; however it also says they will assess an underpayment penalty. He says that's a contradiction and would like to recommend it be changed.
Recommendations: The example is not a contradiction, but it is confusing the way it is presented. New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Active – High Priority.
ACTIVE, Subcommittee: Bob Mull (chair), Ann Spiotto, Kelly Wingard, and Todd Oetken

Issue 17030 – When is the Right Time to File a Return
Description: A local Milwaukee tax practitioner indicates he would like to see IRS delay the e-file acceptance date to February 1st each year; this would prevent bad paid tax professionals from filing returns with the client’s payroll stubs.
Recommendations: New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Active – Medium Priority.
ACTIVE, Subcommittee: Sandra Akbar (chair), Jackie Granger, Ann Spiotto, Kelly Wingard, Steve Vanderver and Ray Buschmann
ACTION ITEM: Subcommittee needs more information. Roy Block noted will get figures on number of returns efiled by January 31st.

Issue 17065 – Ability to Contact the IRS
Description: I have tried many times to contact a LIVE HUMAN BEING at IRS through the voice mail system. There is no prompt in the voice mail to connect to a live operator. The only way to do this is if you know the common way to cheat almost any voice mail system. I called 1-800-829-1040. This voice mail does not give the caller the option of connecting to a live operator and eventually frustrates and irritates the caller. I would appreciate any thing that can be done to correct this situation and I am certain I am not alone in my frustration
Recommendations: This is another toll-free issue and should be placed in the “Jackie File”. New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Parking Lot.
PARKING LOT, collect toll free complaints. Spiotto suggested raising this idea to the Joint Committee of having each Area Committee keep toll free line/customer service complaints in the parking lot under a specific file name and track how many we get over a certain time period. Once there is an accumulation of these types of issues, then each committee should raise them to the Joint Committee at one time, as these are on going issues.
ACTION ITEM: Block to raise this issue to the Joint Committee on this process.

Issue 17249 – Secure Site Option to Find Out What You Owe IRS
Description: Why doesn't the IRS have a secure site option where you could log on and find out what they say you owe them on your account?
Recommendations: This issue was raised by Area 2 on February 18, 2009 and the IRS response was Partially Accepted. New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Dropped.
Discussion: The IRS does not have a timeframe for delivery on an on-line account tool; however they are working on a strategic approach to implement this option. ITEM DROPPED

Issue 17264 – Free File Forms – Dial Up
Description: Free-file Fillable forms are a plus, however in states like Illinois high speed internet is not an option. Please find a system that will work with dial up.
Recommendations: New Issue Committee recommends dropping this issue. The taxpayer can go to the library.
ITEM DROPPED

Issue 17305 – Getting 1040 Instructions
Description: I have trouble getting 1040 Instructions. I use forms and publication off the Internet because I can't get them anywhere else. The instructions have too many pages to print and are difficult to read and reference on the computer. Since the government is trying to save money by making it harder to get these documents, I would think they can use a numbering scheme that only changes the few lines that change on a year's basis and would not change all the rest of the lines. Use blank number of lines in key areas to be modified occasionally or use a numbering scheme with sublimes. For example 20 20.a 20.b. I believe ordinances use a scheme like this, then each year one would only have to get an addendum to the instructions for the actual line changes. It would spell out the precise line change for the year and save the cost of printing the whole set of instructions. Also, since I use my own spread sheet, it would be nice to have an electronic file of each table so it could be downloaded and entered into a spread sheet, especially the tax table.
Recommendations: New Issue Committee recommends dropping this issue. It would be more confusing. ITEM DROPPED

Issue 17314 – Refund Not Received Timely
Description: The IRS website gave 3-23-10 as the expected deposit date. On 3-23-10 the deposit was not made. I called 1-800-829-1954 to find out why the deposit wasn't made. The system kept referring me to 1-800-829-1040. The representative could only tell me it was a minor error, but couldn't tell me what the "minor error" was. On 3-24 I called the other number with the referral code and was advised again it was a minor error. For a minor error it certainly was a circular experience both on the website and on the phone. The delay in my refund really cost me over a "minor error" and the system was not friendly. You should be able to find out what the error was, and a minor error should not delay your refund another 2-3 weeks as I was told it would. Tweak the system a little and let me know what's going on and cut the delay.
Recommendations: New Issue Committee recommends changing status to Parking Lot. This is another example of customer service on the toll-free line.
Discussion: A discussion took place about the language being used by IRS employees to the taxpayer. It was decided to keep this issue in the parking lot to see if more comments are received on this issue. PARKING LOT

Kelly Wingard brought up two issues to potentially add to the database, one regarding adoption subsidies and the other about children buying a house but it is put in the parent’s name. A discussion took place on the subjects on how to possibly handle these two unique tax filing issues. ACTION ITEM: A new issue will be added regarding what is considered support and that publication 501 should list all items considered support.

Issue Discussion – Active Issues

Issue 16730– Refer for Preparer Advice (Taylor): To Internal Quality Review.

Issue 16728 - Understanding Taxes (Wingard): Issue will be written up Friday.

Issue 16727 – Correspondence Audits (Adams-Dodds): Issue to be written up Friday.

Issue 16933 – Tax Practitioner Hotline Availability (Vanderver): Referred to Parking Lot.

Issue 16731 – First Time Penalty Abatement (Martyniuk / Werner): To Internal Quality Review.

Issue 16706 – Disclosure of Taxpayer Information by Preparers (Young):
Issue was in Internal Quality Review. Changes on the issue have been accepted and can now go to the Joint Committee Quality Review.

Resurrection of Prior Issue Approved Issue for Elevation

• Issue 4760 – Installment Agreement Policy Changes (Monnier)

The $25,000 ceiling for participation in the Installment Agreement (IA) program was set in 1999. Increasing this cap and the length of the payback period (currently 60 months) would ease taxpayers' payment burdens and may increase the collection of unpaid taxes. Per Dave Monnier since 1999 workers average pay has gone up 38% and loan repayment timeframes, such as car loans, have been extended. It use to be you could only get a car loan for five years, but now loans are for six and seven years. If we follow the economic data why not offer 72 months and $30,000, which is about $470 a month depending on interest rate. A taxpayer could pay more and IRS could increase the dollar amount collected. If the amount paid is smaller, then taxpayers would be able to pay it over a longer period of time. After discussing this issue it was decided by consensus to drop the issue.
ITEM DROPPED

Status of Issues Referred to Forms and Pubs

• Issue 5562 – MFJ vs. MFS List of Items Affected (Taylor)

No response yet

Status of Elevated Issues

• Issue 5471, IRS Identity Theft Advice Clarification (Buschmann)

No response yet

How to Write an Effective/Quality Issue
A handout was provided to be used as a guide. Wingard went through the hand out with the panel members and offered the following comments: when writing up the issue be as brief as possible and be sure to go through the checklist. Omit needless words. Keep the Issue Statement as distinct as possible. In the issue statement the problem is in the last sentence. Sometimes the Goal Statement and Proposed Solution blend together and it is hard to distinguish the two. For the goal statement start it with “to”, and list to do what. In the Proposed Solution list step by step what you want to have done.

In the Background and Analysis section is where you show your work. Put in the relevant facts and leave out opinions. You cannot presume the Joint Committee will know all the details and the issue will need to go through the Joint Committee before it goes to the IRS. In the Benefits and Barriers section don’t gloss over the barriers, ignoring hurdles doesn’t remove them. The Summary and Conclusion section is where you wrap it all up.

Hand the draft to someone who doesn’t know anything about the issue and if they understand it, then you have hit your mark.

(Subcommittees broke out and worked on issues.)

Progress Update

NEW ISSUE – A new issue was brought up by Spiotto with the Issue Number TBD, entitled “Empowered Taxpayers: New approach to VITA/TCE Tax Return Preparation.” After much discussion in the committee about past experiences with VITA and the customer base, it was decided a write up will be completed requesting a pilot program. The subcommittee consists of Bob Mull, lead, Ann Spiotto, Todd Oetken. Issue pending: to be entered into the TAP Database.

Issue 16727 – Correspondence Audits
This is actually two issues in one. It will be added to the TAP Database (Issue Number TBD) and will be referred to SAMS at the time Issue 16727 is raised to the Joint Committee. Issue 16727 has been raised to Internal Quality Review.

Issue 16728 – Understanding Taxes
Approved and will be sent to Internal Quality Review

Issue 16731 – First time Penalty Abatement
Approved for elevation to the Joint Committee Quality Review

Issue 17016 – Publication 505 Correction
Approved for elevation to the Joint Committee Quality Review

Issue 16730 – Refer for Preparer Advice
Approved for elevation to the Joint Committee Quality Review

Issue 16706 – Disclosure of Taxpayer Information by Preparers
Approved for elevation to the Joint Committee Quality Review

Issue 16964 – TCE Program Income Limits
Approved and will be sent to Internal Quality Review

Issue 17030 – When is the Right Time to File a Return
Subcommittee will work on this issue pending information provided by Smiley
ACTION ITEM: Ellen Smiley to send needed information to work this issue

Issue 16851 – Deductions passed by the Federal Government
Subcommittee is in the process of writing this issue.
Subcommittee: Mary Jo Werner, lead, Lev Martyniuk, Matt Kosanovich.

Issue 16671 – Call Center Options
Referred to Parking Lot

Issue 16668 – Forms Availability
DROPPED

Issue 16703 – Streamline Offer in Compromise
Subcommittee working on this issue
Subcommittee: Matt Kosanovich, lead, Wayne Mackie, Mary Jo Werner, Lev Martyniuk, Kelly Wingard

Issue 16870 – Allowance to be listed as POA on Form 2828 and to Use E-Services
Subcommittee still is working on this issue.
Subcommittee: Rita Taylor, lead, Joyce Rhyan, Todd Oetken, Carolyn Adams-Dodds, Bob Mull

Issue 16885 - Mailing of Publication 15
Subcommittee still working on this issue
Subcommittee: Dave Monnier, lead, Rita Taylor, Sandra Akbar

Parking Lot Issue Discussion

Issue 16734 – IRS Focus on Tax Preparers who Prepare Returns Incorrectly
Mary Jo Werner noted there were ten thousand letters sent out on this. A retired preparer received such a letter which states the IRS may visit him. According to Smiley the letter is based on the type of returns you have prepared. Werner is interested in finding out if this is a one time letter or will this happen annually.
ACTIVE
Subcommittee: Mary Jo Werner, lead, Marilyn Young, Kelly Wingard

Issue 16795 – Where Did All the Local Telephone Service Go?
Keep in Parking lot in the customer service file

Issue 16849 – List VITA sites on IRS Website
The website has been a work in progress to add VITA sites in each state. ITEM DROPPED

Issue 16850 – Too Many IRS Addresses for Mailing Returns
Returns are processed by the service center receiving the return, except for international returns.
ITEM DROPPED

Outreach
Mull spoke briefly on outreach and how to bring up TAP. He believes everyone has done an outreach event but has not documented it. A suggestion is to just take a few minutes at the end of the day to fill out the Outreach form and email it to Smiley. Mull and Smiley will work together to create a one page report to show names and their total outreaches to be used as a motivational tool.

Project Committee Highlights

Communications – Joyce Rhyan works more specifically with the Internal Communications Subcommittee. The assignment she has specifically been working on is the TAP Membership Bio Booklet. This booklet will be handed out to each panel member at the Annual Meeting and will be an ongoing assignment. Block added the External Communications Subcommittee has been working on getting the www.improveirs.org link on business and congressional websites. Vanderver noted he had this link added to a website.

Forms and Pubs – Lev Martyniuk noted they are working on several improvements on forms such as the Home Buyers Credit and 1099sfor third party payers. Rita Taylor is specifically working on the Form
K-1 for Partnerships (Form 1065).

TAC – Monnier noted the assignment for this committee this year is to look at the signage in the TACs and to look at possible new technologies to provide the same information as the paper signs. Spiotto added the panel members speak to the managers of the TACs and it has been very interesting. Last year this committee looked at the payment process and made some meaningful recommendations.
Werner took the final TAC Report on the payment process and gave it to her local Congressman and pointed out one of the hot buttons was the section on the 8109-B, FTD Deposit coupon. This coupon comes from the IRS and if a taxpayer went to their local TAC they would only receive one or two coupons. As a result, payments could be late. The committee wanted to make the 8109 B coupon more accessible for all taxpayers. Werner’s local congressman and his chief of staff thought everyone should have the ability to download it from the internet. An example of the convenience of being able to print it off the internet would be a semi driver driving their truck around trying to find an office to make a cash payment using the 8109 B Form. This has been assigned to Harry Stein who works in Senator Kohl’s office and specifically works on tax issues. If this bill passes, all taxpayers could take this coupon to a bank to make a payment.

SBSE – Carolyn Adams-Dodds is working on the voluntary agreements for the waiters and waitresses who are not reporting their tips. Werner is working on the Audit Technique Guides which have not been changed for 30 years.

VITA – Vanderver noted they are tasked with three projects, but are only working on two now. One is financial education and asset building and the other is the quality review process. The third involves a training issue. On the quality side we are looking at IRS tools to measure the quality of returns. The measurement process in the IRS is well developed. Matt Kosanovich is on the financial education and asset building subcommittee and with direction from the program owner they are able to identify areas to provide feedback. They are also looking at TAC sites and seeing what other services can be provided to the taxpayer.

EITC – Sandra Akbar and Jackie Granger are both on the same subcommittee. They are working on how to communicate what EITC is to the novice and to the experience taxpayer. The other project a subcommittee is working on is a slide presentation IRS can use at VITA sites.

OPEN FORUM

Mull spoke on a class he took on Tax Policy and the Economy. A hand out was provided.

New Member Comments
Granger noted this face to face meeting was so different compared to the Annual Meeting and suggested next time at the Annual Meeting have a new person sit in-between two experienced panel members. Marilyn Young felt the Annual Meeting was overwhelming, but this meeting met her expectations. Martin suggested members that will become second year members, be on a conference call with new panel members to provide insight. Akbar suggested the use of Skype video teleconferencing.

Spiotto added it would be more conducive to have two face to face meetings in a year as opposed to having just one. Block explained the budget doesn’t allow for two face to face meetings in a year.

Returning Member Comments–
Monnier noted when he first came on board he didn’t know what he should be doing during the first three months. Rita Taylor added there is not lot of time between being selected and the Annual Meeting. There is no time to read information prior to the meeting so when you get there you are overwhelmed. Vanderver stated he feels a little down because he knows he is half way done and knows it has to end. Adams-Dodds found the TAP experience to be very rewarding, and was at first confused about the term Parking Lot, but once she was familiar with the terms it became easier. Werner suggested there be mentoring for the new members. Martyniuk said it has been a wonderful experience. Wingard noted she is happy for the experience and stated the staff is wonderful. Rhyan also felt this has been a wonderful experience and appreciates how everyone works together.

Healthcare Reform – Block spoke briefly on Healthcare Reform and how it will be handled under the Department of the Treasury and more specifically the IRS. We don’t know how this will affect us at the IRS level, but thinks the IRS will be involved with assessing penalties.

Meeting Assessment
Survey handed out to be returned to Todd Oetken.

Adjourned